Once in a while here, an older post will generate an ongoing comment thread that produces resources and updated information to go along with some interesting dialogue, and thus bears revisiting. Earlier this year, a series of entries about allegations that the Chinese government was harvesting organs from unwilling Falun Gong prisoners at a hospital complex in Sujiatun began to get some attention. One of those posts, "Report on Chinese Organ Harvesting" is where a good bit of the comment action is, and it also contains links to the previous posts and lots of good resouces on the subject.
The report mentioned was the one by independent Canadian journalists David Matas and David Kilgour, who conducted an investigation which concluded that the allegations of organ harvesting (and murder) by the Chinese government were true. Advocating for the Chinese regime in comments on all these posts is one "bobby fletcher" , and he is countered by Canadian blogger Makina, along with Jana and others.
I've got no dog in this fight other than a desire to see the truth come out, and the persecution of Falun Gong practitioners stopped, and I do find some of the interviews I've read at Epoch Times, and the reporting by Matas and Kilgour to be fairly persuasive. I think it's entirely proper for the human rights record of the Chinese government to be examined and discussed openly as the 2008 Olympics puts them at the center of world attention. And if that happens here in a comment thread at an obscure blog, that's OK too.
(Bloggers get criticized for excessive self-linking, so I try to keep that to a minimum around here...forgive this exception to my rule.)
Related:
Murder For Organs in China
Jay Nordlinger on Sujiatun at NRO
Epoch Times Organ Harvesting Article Archive
Posted by dan at September 8, 2006 08:41 PM | TrackBackDan:
First of all thank you for mentioning Mr. David Kilgour's report. Efforts such as yours will help bring the question of China's human rights abuse to the forefront of public consciousness, and bring facts into light.
While China's human rights records should be examined, I would like to urge you to look into all the facts of the case, regarding the concentration camp allegation made by the religious sect Falun Gong, and promoted by Mr. Kilgour.
I have been following this story since March. I researched this matter after being given a flyer in Chinatown - and I have found many problems with this allegation.
In my opinion Falun Gong's actions not only discredited their own cause, they also detracted from honest examination of China's problems. Falun Gong's indictment muddles the rational discussion of issues such as China's legal reform, and Chinese society's moral, ethical standards on dignity and treatment of the condemned.
It is in this spirit I would like to bring to your attention some contrarian facts surrounding Falun Gong's recent media activity:
- US State Department investigated and found Falun Gong's Sujiatun/Auschwitz allegation not credible. (1)
- A Congressional brief on China and Falun Gong questioned the and veracity of Falun Gong's claim of genocide, and credibility of the Kilgour report, including questionable evidence and the fact Mr. Kilgour's investigation was at the behest of a Falun Gong group in Washington DC that is evidently political. (2)
- Long time Chinese dissident and ant-CCP activist, Mr. Harry Wu, investigated the allegation and found Falun Gong's witness unreliable. (3)
- The hospital Falun Gong accused is partly owned by a Malaysian health care company, Country Height Healthcare, and is subject to oversight beyond Chinese authority. Malay officials have documented prior year visit, and the facility has been open to public for years. (4)
- The Kilgour report admitted gory photo used by Falun Gong for shock value, are not evidence of torture or vivisection.
Specifically in the Kilgour report, Appendix 12 Case 1 - photo of Mr. Wang Bin. Pathologist review contradicted Falun Gong's claim. (5) Even according to Falun Gong's own evidence, an autopsy was performed as part of Mr. Wang's murder investigation held by local authority. (6)
Another photo that is widely mis-used by Falun Gong is of Mr. Liu Yufeng, it too does not prove torture or vivisection. In reality these autopsy photos prove the opposite is true. The Chinese government was not complacent and investigated death of citizens while under police custody.
In conclusion, while China's human rights record should be examined, writing allegory of "Schindler's List" is not the way. If we in the west can not be precise with our accusation, only resort of nefarious political indictment - why should anyone take what we say seriously?
Sincerely,
References:
1)
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2006&m=April&x=20060416141157uhyggep0.5443231&t=livefeeds/wf-latest.html
2) "The Collateral of Suppression", a report critical of China written for Senator Dianne Feinstein, member of Congressional Executive Committee on China (CECC), where congressional researchers Emma Ashburn and Thomas Lum were quoted.
3) http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20060806_1.htm
http://www.cicus.org/news/newsdetail.php?id=6492
4)
http://crc.gov.my/clinicalTrial/documents/Proposal/TCM_Stroke%20TrialProtocol%20synopsis.pdf (page 3)
5) Review by Dr. Friedlander, Chairman of Pathology Dept. at Kansas City University of Medicine.
Specifically, the Kilgour Report Appendix 12, Case 1 involving Mr. Wang Bin, where the photo showed 'Y' incisions in the neck and baseball stitch suture, which are typical of autopsy. The fact organ removal by medical examiner during autopsy is routine, is omitted.
6) http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2000/11/16/6164.html
Hi Dan,
I thought you might be interested in reading this piece about Bobby Fletcher/Charles Liu who's commented on your blog. He's been all over the blogosphere discrediting the organ harvesting report. Have a look.
Western Standard (Alberta): Sowing Confusion; Embarrassed by reports of live organ harvesting, China's sympathizers launch a high-tech disinformation campaign
http://organharvestinvestigation.net/media/WesternStandard_040907.htm
April 9, 2007 Monday
Final Edition
HEADLINE: Sowing Confusion; Embarrassed by reports of live organ harvesting,
China's sympathizers launch a high-tech disinformation campaign
BYLINE: Kevin Steel, Western Standard
He posts his messages everywhere under several different names on Internet blogs and discussion groups. He writes letters to the editor anywhere and sends e-mails to anyone--anyone who might take seriously shocking evidence that the Chinese government "harvests" and sells live organs from political prisoners. His main message is that the Falun Gong--the group which first brought evidence of live organ harvesting to light--and the Epoch Times newspaper that broke that story are spreading propaganda against China's Communist government. And he's not even Chinese. He is Charles Liu, a 40-year-old Taiwanese-born technology consultant who lives in Issaquah, Wash., and does business in China.
Liu has been so active and so pro-Beijing in his writings that some Falun Gong supporters--in particular Epoch Times reporter Jana Shearer--have accused him of being an agent for the Chinese government, waging a disinformation campaign against them, trying to confuse people, and deliberately wasting everyone's time.
It's a charge that upsets Liu, who dismisses it as "a bunch of kooky friends making unfounded accusations. It's just a bunch of blog BS." As for why he devotes so much energy to attacking the Falun Gong and the organ harvesting allegations, he says, "My position is that I simply don't agree with their brand of politics, because I observed their politics turning from anti-Communist party, to anti-China, . . . and recently it's morphed into this anti-Chinese hysteria and that's going to be hurting people," he says. As an Asian-American, he says he decided to speak up.
He doesn't really explain, when asked, why he started a blog last year called "The Myth of Tiananmen Square Massacre" under the name of Bobby Fletcher (one of his online aliases, which he also uses to comment on the Western Standard's online blog). On that blog, he pushes the minimal 250 casualty figure that the Chinese government has always maintained died that night in 1989 (more reliable estimates put the figure at at least ten times that).
Liu's actions mirror disinformation campaigns waged by the Chinese government in the past. Typically, these include the deliberate spreading of false or misleading facts to sow confusion or doubt among the conflicting accounts. The classic example is the Tiananmen Square massacre; the Chinese government has maintained that no one died in the square itself, that there was only pushing and shoving on the streets around the square, resulting in a few military casualties. Overseas, the CCP relies on its United Front Work department, part of the Chinese intelligence service, to propagate its message. During the Cold War, the Soviets employed many overseas flunkies through their Disinformation Department.
Former Canadian MP David Kilgour, who co-authored a report on China's macabre organ harvesting industry, has received many propaganda e-mails from Liu. For instance, Liu has written repeatedly that a U.S. congressional committee looked into the organ harvesting allegations and found nothing.
"[David] Matas and I gave evidence to that subcommittee and got support from both the Republican chairman and the Democratic vice-chair," says Kilgour. "I just came to the conclusion he was trying to waste my time, and I have other things to do."
Winnipeg-based human rights lawyer, and Kilgour's co-author, David Matas, really doesn't know what to make of Liu. "I don't know who he is, but what he does is spend a lot of time replicating nonsense to defend the Chinese government," Matas says.
The only concern Matas has is that Liu seems to know who he and Kilgour met with in the United States to discuss their report. Matas discovered Liu had sent e-mails to politicians--and their staff--prior to the meetings. "The only people who would have that information would potentially be the Chinese government. I can't imagine how Liu would know we were meeting with those people," Matas says. "We're not super-secretive, but you can't find information on the Internet or in any public place about who we're meeting with, where and when." He himself has received at least 10 e-mails from Liu, all of which he's ignored. Maybe Matas is onto something with that approach.
GRAPHIC:
Colour Photo: CP, Dave Cahn; David Kilgour (left) and David Matas, co-authors of a report on China's organ harvesting industry: How does Liu know who they're meeting with?
LOAD-DATE: March 29, 2007